Stroads are Ugly, Expensive, and Dangerous (and they're everywhere) [ST05]

8.3M views · 5 years ago · explainer · evergreen

Not Just Bikes explains the stroad, the road and street hybrid common in North America: wide, fast arterials lined with driveways and businesses. The video argues that stroads are dangerous, costly to maintain and bad for the businesses on them compared with real streets and real roads.

HN uses it as the standard primer on why car-oriented road design fails, and cites it in threads on road safety and urban planning.

“Not Just Bikes does a great job covering the terrible "stroad".”

25 comments from Hacker News

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@oblio2025 · in “Accepting US car standards would risk European lives”
Watch his video. Pick 2-3 at random, be a grown up and ignore the tone of voice and the snarkiness, and see what his points are. They're very solid. Try something like this: link ▶ this video
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@greggyb2025 · in “Changes since congestion pricing started in New York”
...continued... > * You are much safer being in a car when hit by another car than when not being in a car. This is something a lot of bike commute advocates sweep under the rug. They talk about how biking is overall safe, but then you ask them if they've ever had an accident and so many have been hit by cars and broken bones. And you are much safer not having an accident in the first place. If we want to observe the world, there are cities that have done a great job at reducing all vehicle related fatalities and injuries: those injuries to drivers and passengers in any vehicle involved, and also those injuries to anyone outside of the vehicle. There are two commonalities in these cities: 1) they have many viable options for transportation, including high quality bike infra, pedestrian areas, trains, buses, metros, trams, and personal vehicles; and 2) they reduce traffic and speed in all areas where personal vehicles are potentially in conflict with other forms of transportation. You'll recognize in the first point the same refrain I have been repeating: optimizing a transportation system does not mean optimizing primarily on just one mode of transit. It's not about forcing one mode or banning another. It is about options. There is a near universal observation about transit times within and into/out of urban areas that the time for car travel tends toward the time for public transit. This is generally understood to be because humans optimize their transport, and if one option is faster or more convenient, enough people choose that until it is not. The second thing those cities do, though, is the leading cause for the reduction in accident frequency, lethality, and severity of injury: the reduction in traffic quantity and speed. The road-street distinction is very important here. If you are not familiar with it, the distinction is this: roads are high speed connections between places, optimizing for vehicle throughput; streets are complex environments where a wide assortment of destinations are, where living is done, businesses exist, and the general activities of life and city happen. If you want more detail, this video is a good primer (linked to a relevant portion: ▶ this video); the video is coming from a very strong place of opinion. I am not asking you to accept all the opinions, but am simply sharing the video, because it provides lots of good real-world examples in laying out the distinction. It is essential that, within a city, there are affordances for people out of cars and people in cars. This is simple reality. If we recognize this reality, and we understand that humans are imperfect and prone to failure, then the conclusion is that if we want to reduce the injuries and deaths associated with traffic, we must build systems that tend toward this outcome. The practical implementations of such systems that are proven to be effective in achieving this outcome are: 1. separate through-traffic 2. ensure mixed-mode areas force low volumes and speeds of cars The first is by designing transportation networks that force through-traffic to roads designed for it. The second takes many forms, generally known as traffic calming. I have mentioned a few already. You can search for more. The other side of this is recognizing that cities are for people (the people in the cars and the people out of the cars, though at some points the people in the cars become people out of cars). There must be areas where people want to go. And those areas where people are must minimize the risk of negative interactions with vehicles. Again, traffic calming and pedestrianizing. Regarding injury: the most likely cause of death and severe injury for a shockingly wide swath of adults in the US is a car accident, whether in the car or out of it. I do not make this as an argument against cars. I make this as an argument for design of car infrastructure in ways that makes me safer regardless of which side of the steel I am
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@andrepd2025 · in “Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic”
It's mind boggling to me that this is a genuine comment. I suggest this yt channel as a start to open your eyes as to how yes, another world is possible ▶ this video
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@gcanyon2024 · in “I mapped almost every USA traffic death in the 21st century”
You might be interested in Not Just Bikes. In particular, their take on what they call "stroads": ▶ this video
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@notjoemama2023 · in “I brought down a scamming operation with 15 bytes of PHP”
City/road design, greater distances of travel, higher speeds. No character, moral, or legal failing required. Some designs work better in some contexts than others. I wish I could remember the YouTube channel but I saw a couple great critiques of road and city designs comparing the US and certain places in Europe. Ah ha! I found it searching “stroads”, this is part of a series: ▶ this video
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@snovymgodym2023 · in “If we want a shift to walking we need to prioritize dignity”
I agree that the "US is a rural country" thing isn't true, but the way most US cities are built make walking either very inconvenient or outright dangerous. Posting this channel in this sort of thread is basically a meme, but this take on the topic is pretty good: ▶ this video
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@gcanyon2022 · in “The Exceptionally American Problem of Rising Roadway Deaths”
Not Just Bikes on YouTube covers road/pedestrian/bike safety extensively. link Specific videos: Crossing the street should be safer: link How to quickly build a cycling city: link Wasting money on car infrastructure: link The wrong way to set speed limits: link Safe cycling: link "Stroads" are dangerous: ▶ this video
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@xputer2022 · in “Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes”
Watch some videos from this channel and you'll be able to see how the US definitely does not do enough in terms of creating safe road infrastructure for all: ▶ this video link link
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@Akronymus2022 · in “More cyclists are being killed by cars. Advocates say US streets are the problem”
US stroads are definitely awful. Not just bikes did quite a few interesting videos on such things. link ▶ this video
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@dashundchen2022 · in “A smartphone app that allows public to submit evidence of speeding drivers”
I would say in the US, our road design means our speed limits are way too high for safe travel. Speed limits are set high with no attempt at reducing points of conflict. It's a meme at this point, but Not Just Bikes does a great job covering the terrible "stroad". ▶ this video Most places in the US are filled with wide, multi-lane roads posted for speed limits of 35-45 mph. But those roads will be packed with unsignaled driveways, where drivers entering the road needed to make unprotected and right left turns with and against traffic that's likely going 45-55mph, and drivers on the road need to predict the behavior of cars coming from almost any direction. Meanwhile, a thin stripe of white paint gets added to the gutter and is somehow called a bike lane - like anyone wants to ride their bike at the same grade as 2+ ton trucks flying by within a foot of your handlebars. Those same lanes will frequently disappear or reappear within a shoulder, and at intersections will suddenly cross or dump you out into a right turn lane. Better hope that driver turning right noticed you before you get hooked. It's even worse for pedestrians, where even in dense cities, a walk signal is by no means a safe time to walk. Unsignaled left and right-on-red means a car will likely fly through their path at any given moment. On your way to this intersection, you'll continuously cross driveways and slip lanes with curve radii to encourage speeding, sidewalks that dump you into parking lots (if they exist at all!).
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@uoaei2022 · in “No minimum parking requirements? No problem for Fayetteville, Arkansas”
One word: stroad link USA seems to be unique in the case that they think this design constitutes a finished product. Edit: the Not Just Bikes youtube channel has great content regarding contemporary urban planning. Here's their video about stroads ▶ this video
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@panopticon2021 · in “Kids need freedom, too”
> Well, the roads are safe (for cars). Not necessarily. Your risk of being in a fatal car accident is nearly 3x higher on suburban roads than urban roads. This is a good video on the deficiencies of suburbia road design if you're curious: ▶ this video
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